re: grewbook/kiwiana/bantaba

Johannes Birringer (
Wed, 3 Sep 97 03:11 +0100

Hola comrades,

the list discussion is growing ever more interesting and stimulating (to me),
with good humour in it too. I liked Nik's responses about how the book grew (and
will grow) and his straighforward explanation of algorithms and of his use of
"bantaba" (in his answer to Scott).

I believe the spirit you speak of, Nik, coming from the experience of dancing
the dance, is what some or most of this community is all about, that which we
talk about whether we mean collaboration, exchange, information, or technical
advice and updates.

Now I learn another new word, kiwiana, which Richard introduced when he sent us
info and the marvelous suggestion for interconnecting websites/homepages, and I
feel a lot of encouragement in your message, Richard, which again is the kind of
"dance" "technique" I was thinking of when I spoke of the movement of net
activists or alternative media producers.

If the use of metaphors or "names" for groups or movements is an indication of a
spirit and a counter-politics, then I think we also might learn from the
cultural mixing or the transcultural shifts we are experiencing, which, if one
looks at the music scene or the dj world, is hardly unreflexive and not
necessarily always politically correct. If there is any doubt on whether our
group is forming a community, Scott, perhaps we can all debate it or comment on
what our connections mean to us, or how we experience other mailgroups or
netcommunications (which cannot possibly, to such a high percentage, originate
predominantly in California....?) For me, the information and the thought that's
coming through, and the personal attitudes of people in our group, are something
I cherish and value much. And I think it shows the progression of international
net activity (in its still decentralized and uncensored condition) that an info
data base such as Nik's is already, after two days, receiving input from/about
Australia and New Zealand, and hopefully from Asia, and Latin America, and
Africa, and east/west Europe, not that these territorial nomenclatures are
essential anymore anyway. (what, however, would we do with such a huge database,
and is it realistic or desirable that many many performance and media groups are
connected or captured (traceable to) by homepages? have our homepages served us
well, improved our lives and business?

[As far as bantaba, kiwiana and les misÚrables are concerned, I looked at some
of the groups and the namings of activities in the Hybrid Workspace, and saw an
activist collective from Berlin called "Scheinschlag," a group called
V2_East/Syndicate-Deep Europe, a publishing group from London called "mute,"
the "Tactical Media Network" from Amsterdam, the "Old Boys' Network" (a group of
cyberfeminists), and "bari", an antiracist alliance.]
[At the HIP in Holland a map of cryptography was shared, and it's published by
an organisation that calls itself "Pretty Good Privacy" []
Does anyone know the joke here?]

I conclude with a response I got from Diane to my question..

<< I checked, following Diane's suggestion,
<<but didn't find statements by the dancers [webbedfeats]. Can you help me
<<Diane, or could you excerpt them and post them to us?>>

Diane answered:

<<The person to ask is Stephan, as I am not at all the technological expert
<<when it comes to the website.

mmmmh. I'd like to find out from you Diane, please. I am sure you and the other
dancers have looked at how you have been quoted.


Johannes Birringer
AlienNation Co.