Avi Rosen wrote:
> Hi Barry!
> of course we r artists in traditional way, but since ducimp sorry Marcel
> duchamp introduced the 'ready made' to the art world, there r new ways to
> make or look at art!
You are quite right Avi... Duchamp's ready-mades did change everything. But Duchamp is
history... he represents the Dada stream of modern art and a major branching leading towards
Pop Art and Neo-Dada and Conceptualism and Installation and Performance. Duchamp and Dada
are a force, like Cubism that must be understood if we can proceed. You might consider the
philosophy of dada as a purification of those who simply would put a urinal in an art
exhibition and say "this is art".
For there is another concept of modernism that looms - a work of art must be "original". I
or you cannot, as moderns put a urinal on display and say - "this is a work of art" because
Duchamp already has done it. Also a urinal in a public washroom is not a work of art, in
modern terms, the work of art must be intentional and exhibited in a gallery or in an art
magazine or hailed as art by an "artist" or by a viewer ship. Art, in the modern era was a
conscious act.
> if the intention is important part of art creation,
> we
> can't prevent artistic expretion from anyone, specially when the
> electronic
> tools provide new means do so.
I certainly don't want to prevent anybody from making "art" but i would like to re-establish
"professionalism" in the arts and a return to "the market system". I believe that academic
and socialist art have failed the artist and the culture and the people. Socialism is best
left to things such as (at least the administration of) public transportation, public health
care, the maintenance and construction of roads. The university and the government should
take the taxes and philosophical restrictions off the trade in art objects and stand clear.
The relationship between artist and patron (the patron of the electronic age is the mass -
re: music). This is the mass age (massage - or message of new media).
> josef boyes said- i demand artistic
> involvement
> from every one- from engineers, politicians, priests, house wife's, etc...
Yes i would agree with Boyes but... aesthetic principles cannot be left to professionals who
have spent their lives trying to learn and perfect the knowledge that they have inherited
from their teachers of science, politics, law, religion, and management of the home. The
concept that "form follows function" denies the truth that aesthetic is a form of function.
Artists should be consulted when a building is being constructed or an engine is being build
and house wives should purchase well designed furniture, household implements and decorations
form reputable and fashionable artists.
>
> even pealing potatoes can be a artistic act if it's done consciuslly.
> maybe the definition of art/artist are changing radicly. pls tell me what u
> think about it.
No, pealing potatoes is not an art act. This is where post modern theory departs from
modern. The potato will be eaten... the act of peeling (or even painting) is not art.
Plastic art is objective. Plastic art is the only medium that is able to travel through time
without decay because it is still and independent of time. You must read these words one by
one in a linear stream, you must watch a play or video in the time provided, dance and music
play out in a time frame. Literature and performed art are not plastic art. Anything that
requires a viewing medium which can become obsolete like computers, language (itself), video,
cinema, or is culturally dependent - is not art. With traditional art materials and the
visual methodology we are able to launch idea into the deep future.
If we are unable to create art in permanent media in this era, like the 700 initial years
after the establishment of the catholic church, the entire culture of Judea, and of Mohammed,
and the protestant hordes... This later part of the twentieth century and beyond will be
interpreted as an iconoclastic age of image destruction under the leadership of such
intellectuals as boyes and duchamp supported by religious academic fanaticism.
Do you not remember that "art is universal". Potato peeling can be a form of meditation but
art is not necessarily, although it can be, a meditation.
There was a tendency in modern art theory to an undefined art. That is over now. The modern
era is long past with it's last two totally non-objective and effermeral and self destructive
movements - performance and installation.
We can now begin to mass produce urinals signed R. Mutt and market them as living room
decorations world wide through our DuChimpian Distribution Network for $1000 per hundred with
a suggested retail price of no less than $150. Sold only at recognized ChimpTree branch
franchises.
by the way...
are you reading this font in red?
if you are you have html compatible email
if not - you should download the latest version of netscape or internet explorer
we should, as visual artists, be able to send imagery imbedded in our text and be able to
manipulate the colors of font and background... right?
>
> Avi.
> _________________________________
> Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> EE Faculty,
> Technion I.I.T.
> Israel 32000.
> Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> Fax: +972-4-8323041
> E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Barry Smylie wrote:
>
> > everybody is human avi - self expressing
> >
> > but i am an artist
> > soaked my life in it
> > portraying my culture
> > started out professionally as an artist's printing assistant in 1965
> > went to university and art school - to learn art - sent by my master
> > i journeyed to become a master printer in art lithography
> > i painted and drew and did graphics everyday all my life since
> >
> > everybody has the ability to become any profession but not all can do
> >
> > everybody is the button pusher at Armageddon
> >
> > no avi - you/me are artists we are the entertainers and the illuminators
> >
> > i am coming from an ancient tradition of art publishers going back to silver engravers
> > and democractic bible publishers... and i call on a tradition of 30,000 years of
> > accrued knowledge... i am an artist with the specific skills and training and knowledge
> > of an artist
> >
> > everyman is not - has not these skills and many (from my knowledge as a child educator
> > - not all have "talent")
> >
> > http://members.tripod.com/barrysmylie/satclass/sat01.htm
> >
> > we artist are the rarest of human beings
> >
> >
> >
> > Avi Rosen wrote:
> >
> > > tnx Barry!
> > > u for very good job! I believe that every body is an artist specially in the
> > > electronic age. since the artwork is put on the web there are no longer
> > > copyright on the work! every one can use & change it as they wish. ur act
> > > of putting the animation in the work confirms this idea.
> > > Avi.
> > >
> > > _________________________________
> > > Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> > > EE Faculty,
> > > Technion I.I.T.
> > > Israel 32000.
> > > Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> > > Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> > > Fax: +972-4-8323041
> > > E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> > > http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> > > ---------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Barry Smylie wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > i made that series of trans-lingual signs into a gif animation and posted it on
> > > > the left hand side of Chernobyl 1 at duchimp:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.members.tripod.com/duchimp/lightside/avirosen/rosen03.htm
> > > >
> > > > it might not be as frantic as you like it - i could speed it up if you like
> > > >
> > > > working on the animation was thinking about visual art (and architecture) as
> > > > world "languages"... those signs are evident of a new "language" that is
> > > > independent of vocal, regionalist tradition... an iconic language - like the
> > > > icons on your computer screen
> > > >
> > > > i have had a little experience making icons and find that the stencil cutters
> > > > have the last word and they usually cut out the grammar because it requires extra
> > > > cuts...
> > > >
> > > > i once made a sign that was painted at street rainwater run off sewers to remind
> > > > people that those drains were not treated at the sewage plant but dumped directly
> > > > into Lake Ontario
> > > >
> > > > my sign was two sun fish and two ^^^^^ wave lines... it said in english... local
> > > > fishes and waters... the sign makers chose to use a goofy generic fish which said
> > > > in english... fish
> > > >
> > > > i began ranting... yelling... howling... dancing... gesticulating and they sat in
> > > > their suits looking very composed, elegant, and intelligent at the conference
> > > > table... with pens and pads of paper.
> > > >
> > > > perhaps - in a series of work by us three... we could incorporate the
> > > > international icons found around our home cities and transform them into
> > > > symbol....
> > > >
> > > > sign and symbol
> > > >
> > > > what about it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Avi Rosen wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Barry!
> > > > > I put some new signs images u can use it for chernobil, what is the www
> > > > > address of the site?
> > > > > Avi,
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________
> > > > > Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> > > > > EE Faculty,
> > > > > Technion I.I.T.
> > > > > Israel 32000.
> > > > > Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> > > > > Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> > > > > Fax: +972-4-8323041
> > > > > E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> > > > > http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Barry Smylie wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > can we count on you for the spring equanox serial of duchimp avi?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you have some great stuff...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > maybe you me and jeff could do some things together maybe get tommaso
> > > > > > vittorini to lay down some sound bytes for us too?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the animation of the translanguage "do not" symbol (a red circle with a red
> > > > > > diagonal line) was not at arcad.israel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but there is lots of great stuff there for jeff and me to mine - diamonds
> > > > > >
> > > > > > the web "avi rosen" is now connected to the world wide web through "the
> > > > > > lightside" index at duchimp... thanks for you approval and hope we can make
> > > > > > some new stuff together.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > we are hoping, eventually, two or three years down the line - to get both
> > > > > > sponsors and channel subcriptions and make some money but, for now we all
> > > > > > must work for fun... you understand...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Avi Rosen wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi try taking anim. from my other site:
> > > > > > > http://arcad.israel.net/
> > > > > > > Avi.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _________________________________
> > > > > > > Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> > > > > > > EE Faculty,
> > > > > > > Technion I.I.T.
> > > > > > > Israel 32000.
> > > > > > > Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> > > > > > > Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> > > > > > > Fax: +972-4-8323041
> > > > > > > E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> > > > > > > http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> > > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image]
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
--------------8BB4B9B828F41194BEB3DA7A
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
Avi Rosen wrote:
Hi Barry!You are quite right Avi... Duchamp's ready-mades did change everything. But Duchamp is history... he represents the Dada stream of modern art and a major branching leading towards Pop Art and Neo-Dada and Conceptualism and Installation and Performance. Duchamp and Dada are a force, like Cubism that must be understood if we can proceed. You might consider the philosophy of dada as a purification of those who simply would put a urinal in an art exhibition and say "this is art".
of course we r artists in traditional way, but since ducimp sorry Marcel
duchamp introduced the 'ready made' to the art world, there r new ways to
make or look at art!
For there is another concept of modernism that looms - a work of art must be "original". I or you cannot, as moderns put a urinal on display and say - "this is a work of art" because Duchamp already has done it. Also a urinal in a public washroom is not a work of art, in modern terms, the work of art must be intentional and exhibited in a gallery or in an art magazine or hailed as art by an "artist" or by a viewer ship. Art, in the modern era was a conscious act.
if the intention is important part of art creation,I certainly don't want to prevent anybody from making "art" but i would like to re-establish "professionalism" in the arts and a return to "the market system". I believe that academic and socialist art have failed the artist and the culture and the people. Socialism is best left to things such as (at least the administration of) public transportation, public health care, the maintenance and construction of roads. The university and the government should take the taxes and philosophical restrictions off the trade in art objects and stand clear. The relationship between artist and patron (the patron of the electronic age is the mass - re: music). This is the mass age (massage - or message of new media).
we
can't prevent artistic expretion from anyone, specially when the
electronic
tools provide new means do so.
josef boyes said- i demand artistic
involvement
from every one- from engineers, politicians, priests, house wife's, etc...
Yes i would agree with Boyes but... aesthetic
principles cannot be left to professionals who have spent their lives trying
to learn and perfect the knowledge that they have inherited from their
teachers of science, politics, law, religion, and management of the home.
The concept that "form follows function" denies the truth that aesthetic
is a form of function. Artists should be consulted when a building
is being constructed or an engine is being build and house wives should
purchase well designed furniture, household implements and decorations
form reputable and fashionable artists.
No, pealing potatoes is not an art act. This is where post modern theory departs from modern. The potato will be eaten... the act of peeling (or even painting) is not art. Plastic art is objective. Plastic art is the only medium that is able to travel through time without decay because it is still and independent of time. You must read these words one by one in a linear stream, you must watch a play or video in the time provided, dance and music play out in a time frame. Literature and performed art are not plastic art. Anything that requires a viewing medium which can become obsolete like computers, language (itself), video, cinema, or is culturally dependent - is not art. With traditional art materials and the visual methodology we are able to launch idea into the deep future.
even pealing potatoes can be a artistic act if it's done consciuslly.
maybe the definition of art/artist are changing radicly. pls tell me what u
think about it.
If we are unable to create art in permanent media in this era, like the 700 initial years after the establishment of the catholic church, the entire culture of Judea, and of Mohammed, and the protestant hordes... This later part of the twentieth century and beyond will be interpreted as an iconoclastic age of image destruction under the leadership of such intellectuals as boyes and duchamp supported by religious academic fanaticism.
Do you not remember that "art is universal". Potato peeling can be a form of meditation but art is not necessarily, although it can be, a meditation.
There was a tendency in modern art theory to an undefined art. That is over now. The modern era is long past with it's last two totally non-objective and effermeral and self destructive movements - performance and installation.
We can now begin to mass produce urinals signed R. Mutt and market them as living room decorations world wide through our DuChimpian Distribution Network for $1000 per hundred with a suggested retail price of no less than $150. Sold only at recognized ChimpTree branch franchises.
by the way...
are you reading this font in red?
if you are you have html compatible email
if not - you should download the latest version
of netscape or internet explorer
we should, as visual artists, be able to send
imagery imbedded in our text and be able to manipulate the colors of font
and background... right?
Avi.
_________________________________
Avi Rosen, Media Artist
EE Faculty,
Technion I.I.T.
Israel 32000.
Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
Fax: +972-4-8323041
E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
---------------------------------
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Barry Smylie wrote:
> everybody is human avi - self expressing
>
> but i am an artist
> soaked my life in it
> portraying my culture
> started out professionally as an artist's printing assistant in 1965
> went to university and art school - to learn art - sent by my master
> i journeyed to become a master printer in art lithography
> i painted and drew and did graphics everyday all my life since
>
> everybody has the ability to become any profession but not all can do
>
> everybody is the button pusher at Armageddon
>
> no avi - you/me are artists we are the entertainers and the illuminators
>
> i am coming from an ancient tradition of art publishers going back to silver engravers
> and democractic bible publishers... and i call on a tradition of 30,000 years of
> accrued knowledge... i am an artist with the specific skills and training and knowledge
> of an artist
>
> everyman is not - has not these skills and many (from my knowledge as a child educator
> - not all have "talent")
>
> http://members.tripod.com/barrysmylie/satclass/sat01.htm
>
> we artist are the rarest of human beings
>
>
>
> Avi Rosen wrote:
>
> > tnx Barry!
> > u for very good job! I believe that every body is an artist specially in the
> > electronic age. since the artwork is put on the web there are no longer
> > copyright on the work! every one can use & change it as they wish. ur act
> > of putting the animation in the work confirms this idea.
> > Avi.
> >
> > _________________________________
> > Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> > EE Faculty,
> > Technion I.I.T.
> > Israel 32000.
> > Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> > Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> > Fax: +972-4-8323041
> > E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> > http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Barry Smylie wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > i made that series of trans-lingual signs into a gif animation and posted it on
> > > the left hand side of Chernobyl 1 at duchimp:
> > >
> > > http://www.members.tripod.com/duchimp/lightside/avirosen/rosen03.htm
> > >
> > > it might not be as frantic as you like it - i could speed it up if you like
> > >
> > > working on the animation was thinking about visual art (and architecture) as
> > > world "languages"... those signs are evident of a new "language" that is
> > > independent of vocal, regionalist tradition... an iconic language - like the
> > > icons on your computer screen
> > >
> > > i have had a little experience making icons and find that the stencil cutters
> > > have the last word and they usually cut out the grammar because it requires extra
> > > cuts...
> > >
> > > i once made a sign that was painted at street rainwater run off sewers to remind
> > > people that those drains were not treated at the sewage plant but dumped directly
> > > into Lake Ontario
> > >
> > > my sign was two sun fish and two ^^^^^ wave lines... it said in english... local
> > > fishes and waters... the sign makers chose to use a goofy generic fish which said
> > > in english... fish
> > >
> > > i began ranting... yelling... howling... dancing... gesticulating and they sat in
> > > their suits looking very composed, elegant, and intelligent at the conference
> > > table... with pens and pads of paper.
> > >
> > > perhaps - in a series of work by us three... we could incorporate the
> > > international icons found around our home cities and transform them into
> > > symbol....
> > >
> > > sign and symbol
> > >
> > > what about it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Avi Rosen wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Barry!
> > > > I put some new signs images u can use it for chernobil, what is the www
> > > > address of the site?
> > > > Avi,
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________
> > > > Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> > > > EE Faculty,
> > > > Technion I.I.T.
> > > > Israel 32000.
> > > > Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> > > > Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> > > > Fax: +972-4-8323041
> > > > E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> > > > http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 18 Jan 1999, Barry Smylie wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > can we count on you for the spring equanox serial of duchimp avi?
> > > > >
> > > > > you have some great stuff...
> > > > >
> > > > > maybe you me and jeff could do some things together maybe get tommaso
> > > > > vittorini to lay down some sound bytes for us too?
> > > > >
> > > > > the animation of the translanguage "do not" symbol (a red circle with a red
> > > > > diagonal line) was not at arcad.israel.
> > > > >
> > > > > but there is lots of great stuff there for jeff and me to mine - diamonds
> > > > >
> > > > > the web "avi rosen" is now connected to the world wide web through "the
> > > > > lightside" index at duchimp... thanks for you approval and hope we can make
> > > > > some new stuff together.
> > > > >
> > > > > we are hoping, eventually, two or three years down the line - to get both
> > > > > sponsors and channel subcriptions and make some money but, for now we all
> > > > > must work for fun... you understand...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Avi Rosen wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi try taking anim. from my other site:
> > > > > > http://arcad.israel.net/
> > > > > > Avi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _________________________________
> > > > > > Avi Rosen, Media Artist
> > > > > > EE Faculty,
> > > > > > Technion I.I.T.
> > > > > > Israel 32000.
> > > > > > Tel: +972-4-8294753 (work)
> > > > > > Tel: +972-4-8218081 (home)
> > > > > > Fax: +972-4-8323041
> > > > > > E-mail: avi@savyon.technion.ac.il
> > > > > > http://www.technion.ac.il/~ravi/
> > > > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image] [Image]
> > >
> > >
>
>
--------------8BB4B9B828F41194BEB3DA7A--